Т-34-57 помогите опознать!!! ;
Сайт ортодоксальных моделистов
Пожалуйста, войдите или зарегистрируйтесь.

Автор Тема: Т-34-57 помогите опознать!!!  (Прочитано 4213 раз)

don_salluste_

МОСКВА
  • Активные пользователи
Re: Т-34-57 помогите опознать!!!
« Ответ #15 : 19 Декабрь, 2017, 21:21:57 »

Вот только уже не припомню откуда.

Не берусь утверждать что именно от туда, но есть вот эти ссылки

http://www.tanks-encyclopedia.com/ww2/soviet/t34exterminator

http://www.tanks-encyclopedia.com/soviet-21st-tank-brigades-assault-kalinin/
Записан
Попрошу мне не Выкать! С уважением, Серёга
Re: Т-34-57 помогите опознать!!!
« Ответ #16 : 10 Март, 2018, 12:22:02 »

Hello Everyone,

Unfortunately i do not speak russian, but i have some information to help you.

My name is Francis Pulham, and i own some of the photographs shared, i also wrote the articles on http://www.tanks-encyclopedia.com/.

I see that my photographs have been discussed here, and i can help you a little.

After a lit of research, i found and purchased two photographs of what i believe to be T-34s with 57mm guns.





It is now agreed with myself, and other historians (including Yuri Pasholok) that this is indeed a 57mm gun tank.

Not only this, i think i have found who the commander is, and found another photograph of this tank.



this tank is also this tank:



The explanation is this: On the 17th of October 1941, the 21st tank brigade attacked the Germans who were positioned along the Volokolamansk highway in two groups, and along the Turginovskoye highway in a third group.

The first group was numbered "1" to likely "8", however only numbers "1", "4" and "6" have been  found. "1" was commanded by Hero of the Soviet Union Captain Mikhail Pavlovich Agibalov. They were advancing west towards the Volokolamansk highway, and reached the village of Emelyantsevo. One tank was hit my an anti tank gun and blew up. This was tank number "2" commanded by Lieutenant Sergey Mikhailovich Kireev.

It is strongly believed that this tank is number "2", commanded by Kireev and lost in Emelyantsevo. The anti tank gun was engaged and destroyed by S.Kh. Gorobets.

For everyones interest, i also own the only known picture of "1", commanded by Captain Mikhail Pavlovich Agibalov:



You can clearly see the "1" on the hull side. he was killed by the village of Naprudnoe:


The location of Captain Mikhail Pavlovich Agibalov's tank

I hope that this has been useful, my work on the 21st tank brigade continues, and i am working closely with "Максим Фоменко", who wrote a good book on Kalinin during the war.

In my collection of photographs, i have tanks number "4", "6", "21" and "24", plus the suspected "2".

I all willing to answer questions as well.

Francis Pulham
Записан
Re: Т-34-57 помогите опознать!!!
« Ответ #17 : 10 Март, 2018, 15:09:15 »

I also spent a little time cleaning up the photographs. (this is about a years work trying different software).



Here i have converted the colour to black and white, and i ran i though some de-blurring software, then changed up the lighting. I think here the barrel is very clear.

I also zoomed in as much as i could and did the same:



note that the turret is not on the turret ring, it has been blown off. This seems somewhat consistent with accounts.

I hope that its was also useful and helpful. I have a book coming out soon on the T-34, which will feature my photographs.

Francis Pulham
Записан

Павлов Слава

  • Пользователи форума
Re: Т-34-57 помогите опознать!!!
« Ответ #18 : 21 Март, 2018, 21:50:46 »

The second photo might not be a T-34 with a 57mm gun. Please pay attention to these
photos:
https://fotki.yandex.ru/next/users/riaslov-aleks/album/509423/view/1355568
https://fotki.yandex.ru/next/users/riaslov-aleks/album/509423/view/1355569
https://fotki.yandex.ru/next/users/riaslov-aleks/album/509423/view/1355570
https://fotki.yandex.ru/next/users/riaslov-aleks/album/509423/view/1781949

The photos seem to show the same tank (according to configuration of track links
and the same line of fenders on the left side, also both tanks feature small hooks for 3 additional side fuel tanks, which are not present on 2 known T-34-57 tanks). I might be wrong, but still the more people compare photos, the evidences we may get.
« Последнее редактирование: 22 Март, 2018, 03:42:49 от Хольгер »
Записан
Re: Т-34-57 помогите опознать!!!
« Ответ #19 : 24 Март, 2018, 02:46:37 »

Hello there.

Thanks for replying.

The four photographs you shared i do not think are the same tank as mine for a few reasons. Firstly, my tank has a turret of the "simplified" or "8 bolt" type, whereas the tank you shared as a cast turret. my tank has no evidence of hull hard points for external fuel tanks, whereas the ones you shared do, and lastly the background details are completely different.

i propose that the tank that you shared was manufactured a bit earlier than my tank, as it is clear from other Kalinin T-34s that most (but not all) of the tanks were lacking the external hard points for fuel tanks.

It is important to also remember that the "57's" were all deployed in the 21st Tank Brigade, and fought on the Kalinin sector of fighting, and evidence suggests that only perhaps two tanks were knocked out in fighting.

We know that 10 tanks were issued to the 21st tank brigade, and used in the counter attack at Kalinin, however 8 "57's" are listed with the 8th Tank Brigade on October 19th. Perhaps it is not too outlandish to suggest that these are some of the tanks (if not all of the surviving 57's) from the 21st tank brigade. Perhaps research needs to be done on this area, it would however explain why only two 57's have been found so far (lukins tank and Kireevs tank).

Happy to look over more photographs with you,

Francis Pulham
Записан